"I have gotten" x "I had gotten": Qual a diferença

Avatar do usuário Henry Cunha 9970 2 17 177
Para quem realmente quer arguir essa questão, tente desvendar tudo que este "Brit" está dizendo sobre o assunto, prestando bastante atenção às ultimas observações dele sobre ritmo, etc. (que era o que eu estava dizendo):

"John Ramsay Original usenet post 637952 Thu, 25 May 06 01:28 PM
[nq:1][/nq]

"The Brits do indeed have a problem with 'gotten'. Shakespeare ... quibbles about 'got/gotten' can only be classified as misbegotten -:)"


"Well, Americans went one way on "gotten," the British went another. I've spent six years here in Greece surrounded by ... best science graduates with delusions of grandeur, and at worst low trash, but misbegotten? No, I wouldn't go that far."

We're getting close to agreement here. We both dislike pretentiousness in correcting the language of others.
(I am particularly amused by Brits who assume because I no longer have an upper crust accent that I'm open game for their pretentiousness. I am a former Brit, with a father who did a stint an an ESL teacher. Fowler and Fowlers' 'The King's English' replaced daily bible readings in my Brit childhood.)
You seem to have missed my point that Brit pretenders lay claim to the language of Shakespeare for usage support, yet often do not know Shakespeare's usage. An interesting self-contradiction.

You also missed the fact that there was an -:) after 'misbegotten'.

I have often used 'illgotten' and 'misbegotten' to illustrate to carpers that 'gotten' is a viable form.

"At the same time, Americans have our Flipper Mikes to remind us just how far down the bottom of the ... could you? How does it work for you kids up there? Got any books on Canadian usage on your shelf?"

Yeah, I got stuff on my shelf. Wot self-respectin English teach don't?
Canadians tread a middle ground between US/Brit usage.

The Houghton Mifflin Dictionary of Canadian English (based on The American Heritage Dictionary) was begun in 1969.

My 1982 version simply lists 'got' as PT & PP of 'get'. And 'gotten' as PP of 'get'. Without further comment.
This, despite the fact that above dictionary had a very impressive editorial board, including HL Smith, Prof of Linguistics at UB. All ready willing & able to make judgements on usage -:)

(HL Smith a figure known or unknown to you in your undergrad days in upstate NY?)
The Oxford Dictionary of Canadian English, disk version, lists 'got' as PT & PP and '"gotten" as N.Amer. usage of PP.'

Not new if you consider Fowler's 1957 'Dictionary of American-English Usage' treatment of 'got/gotten.'

Still on my shelf from undergrad days.
Best advice is McGraw-Hill 'Handbook of English':
'Both "have got" and "have gotten" are acceptable terms. Your choice will depend upon your speech habits or on the rhythm of the sentence you are speaking or
writing.'
Betcha even the most pretentiously fastidious Brit would not say, 'I've got tired of you.'

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Avatar do usuário Henry Cunha 9970 2 17 177
Para quem gosta dessas questões das divergências entre língua falada e escrita, ou inglês de cá e de acolá, recomendo uma leitura de H.L.Mencken, que, felizmente se encontra na web; começando talvez com esse Capítulo 9: The Common Speech.

Vejam http://bartleby.com/185/38.html

Have fun!
Gabi escreveu:E gotta nunca pode ser usar no sentido de got.
gotta = going to

got = have

We can't say I gotta a car.
I got a car jah eh o mais informal possivel. E eh incorreto escrever dessa forma.
O correto eh "have got" ou "have".
E eu sei que ha pessoas que consideram o certo e o errado num idioma nao pelo o que aprendemos nos livros, mas pelo o que realmente eh dito. Mas, se voce consultar no dicionario , diz que "got" eh falado, mas eh incorreto de se usar na linguagem escrita.


gotta= going to? :?: :?:

gonna=going to
gotta=got to
Avatar do usuário Gabi 705 1 1 13
o assunto é muito interessate, mas eu achei esse texto um pouco maçante Henry,
obrigada mesmo assim :)!
Avatar do usuário Donay Mendonça 49780 21 80 1150
Olá João,

Gotta:Have got to
Gonna:Going to
Wanna:Want to

*Fazendo uma busca aqui no Blog você encontra muitas outras explicações.

Bons estudos!
Fala, pessoal!

Colocando aqui algumas anotações minhas resumidas sobre este assunto:

1) I have = I have got = I got (indicam posse)
> "I have" (mais comum USA - formal) (pode ser usado no presente, no passado - "I had" - ou no futuro - "I will have")
> "I got" (mais comum USA - informal)
> "I have got" (mais comum UK) (só pode ser usado no presente, ou seja, não pode falar: "I will have got" ou "I had got")
Ex.: I have a car / I've got a car / I got a car.


2) I have (pode indicar hábito também)
Ex.: I usually have a shower after the job.


3) I have got TO + infinitive = I got TO + infinitive = I gotta + infinitive = I have TO (urgência - "ter de" em português)
> I got to + infinitive (informal de "I have got to + infinitive")
> I gotta + infinitive (contração de "I got to + infinitive")
> I have got to (só pode ser usado no presente, ou seja, não pode falar: "I will have got to" ou "I had got to")
> I got to (só pode ser usado no presente também)
> I gotta (só pode ser usado no presente também)
> I have to (bem mais formal) (pode ser usado no presente, no passado - "I had to" ou no futuro "I will have to")
Ex.: I've got to leave now / I got to leave now / I gotta leave now / I have to leave now.


Espero ter ajudado!
Abraços