Conditional with obligation

Hi everyone,

I tried to find this topic because I'm sure people out there get confused same way as I get. I asked two Canadians and they didn't know the right way so I ask your help.

How should I say the following sentence and which part of grammar is it? (I think it's still third conditional?)

I was talking to my husband other day and I was telling him that when I was younger my parents had an accident where they had their car destroyed. So obviously they could have died, but they didn't.

then I went on with the story and I got to the sentence "If my parents had died in that accident, I would have to have gone to an orphanage/foster home?"

Eu queria expressar o "se meus pais tivessem morrido naquele acidente eu TERIA QUE TER IDO para um orfanato", queria saber mais sobre esta estrutura de expressar algo que nao ocorreu +obrigacao,

Outro exemplo:

"If the rent had gone up in our city, we would have (nos TERIAMOS que TER mudado)"

Obrigada

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12 respostas
Henry Cunha 3 18 183
A sua versão:
If my parents had died in that accident, I would have to have gone to an orphanage/foster home.
Melhor assim:
If my parents had died in that accident, I would have had to go to an orphanage/foster home.

Semelhantemente:
If the rent had gone up in our city, we would have had to move.

Quando usamos "would have to have + past participle"? Quando queremos dizer "must have".
Neste caso, por exemplo:
He would have to have seen your invitation if he came to the party. = He must have seen your invitation if he came to the party.

Eu não vejo como substituir com "must have" nas suas duas sentenças. Em termos práticos, sem entrar em análise gramatical (ou mental no meu caso), a diferença me parece residir no grau de certeza (absoluta com "must have") entendida em cada expressão.

Será que eu adiantei o assunto pra você? I'm really not sure.
Muito obrigada Henry, vou ter que ler e reler sua resposta apesar de morar fora do Brasil ha algum tempo eu ainda "struggle" com esta parte da gramatica, no dia a dia ninguem liga ne pois parece que ninguem fala certo, mas se a gente parar pra pensar e ver que nao sabe responder pode ser um problema caso tenha que escrever algo mais serio no futuro... "I would have had to go" makes perfect sense!

Thanks for your help! :-)
Henry Cunha 3 18 183
Glad to be of help. Sophia, aquela parte do "grau de certeza" já não me parece muito válida. Existe uma explicação melhor, sem dúvida. Vamos aguardar.
Donay Mendonça 22 107 1.6k
Complemento:

''If my parents had died in that accident, I would have had to go to an orphanage/foster home.''
''If the rent had gone up in our city, we would have had to move.''
Concordo com as soluções acima propostas pelo Henry. Sugiro também:

Certeza razoável:

''If my parents had died in that accident, I would probably have gone to an orphanage/foster home.''
''If the rent had gone up in our city, we would probably have moved.''

Muita certeza:

''If my parents had died in that accident, I would definitely have gone to an orphanage/foster home.''
''If the rent had gone up in our city, we would definitely have moved.''

* A obrigação é mais subentendida do que escrita neste caso. "Definitely" indica uma possibilidade de quase 100%. Estas formas são para mim as mais idiomáticas/naturais. Mas, gramaticalmente falando, as do Henry são melhores para a pergunta feita.
Sra_Tradutora 6 75
I'm another proponent of "would have to" and "would have had to" to convey obligation. While "definitely" does convey certainty, the obligation is not automatically there. For example:

"My older sister is such a pain. I totally hate her guts and there's no way that I'd stay with her, even for just a week! If my parents had died in that accident, I would definitely have gone to an orphanage/foster home instead."

"We completely fell in love with this wonderful little cottage out in the country. It's a long commute and we both have time-consuming jobs, but if the rent had gone up in our city, we would definitely have moved."
Sra_Tradutora 6 75
Edited for tense agreement (the other post is incorrect but I didn't have enough time to correct it):
"Several years ago, we completely fell in love with this wonderful little cottage out in the country. Unfortunately, it was a long commute and we both had time-consuming jobs. But if the rent had gone up in our city, we would definitely have moved."
"If my parents had died in that accident I would/could have been sent to an orphanage",
is different from "If my parents had died in that accident, I would definitely have gone to an orphanage/foster home instead", isn't it ? But, my questions is: Are both possible and 3rd conditional(impossible conditions)?
Sra_Tradutora 6 75
Yikes. You had me google "third conditional" and "possible/impossible conditions", Rakell. I'm not sure I understood your question, but it seems to me that both sentences are third conditional/impossible conditions because they refer to the past and are not based on facts.

First conditional:
If my parents die in that accident, I will/may/might be sent to an orphanage.

Second conditional:
If my parents died in that accident, I would/could be sent to an orphanage.
I asked if the first one is also correct, because it has "passive voice" in its structure, and my second question was: are both third conditional ? I'm sure they aren't 1st nor 2nd conditionals. Sorry if I didn't explain it properly before. :(
Sra_Tradutora 6 75
Rakell Grubert Pere escreveu:I asked if the first one is also correct, because it has "passive voice" in its structure, and my second question was: are both third conditional ? I'm sure they aren't 1st nor 2nd conditionals.
Okay, so 1) the first one is also correct and 2) they're both third conditional.

Both of the following would be correct to complete this sentence:
If I had not closed the birdcage door fast enough...
1) the cat could have eaten the bird.
2) the bird could have been eaten by the cat.

Does this answer your questions, Rakell?
Yeah!!! Thank you very much!! :D

I'll give you my vote tomorrow,ok? I already voted three times today :cry:
well that is something I wanted to know too because I'd like to read some more examples, before posting here I googled third conditional to try and find some examples like the ones I asked about, however, I could only find examples that didn't have that obligation tone to it. So I figured here was the best place to ask...

I think it is impossible because I am here in the present talking about a future that didn't happen but it could have happened...