I know she gets like this sometimes - Tradução em português

Eu estava lendo um livro e me deparei com uma situação(uma conversa entre os personagens)que me deixou com dúvidas, segue abaixo:

"Well, because I know you mom", Simon said, after a pause. "I mean, you and I have been friends for what, ten years now? I know she gets like this sometimes. She'll think better of it".
Clary picked a hot pepper off her plate and nibbed the edge meditatively. "Do you, thought?" She said. "Know her, I mean? I sometimes wonder if anyone does"

No finalzinho a personagem fala: Do you, thought? Por que tem uma virgula após o do you? Eu inicialmente traduzi como: "Você acha", mas aí o verbo(thought)viria imediatamente em seguida do "do you", não?
Editado pela última vez por Donay Mendonça em 04 Fev 2017, 10:59.
Razão: Formatação necessária

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27 respostas
Eu sei que ela fica assim as vezes, é meio literal mas...
Marcio_Farias 1 24 213
Pensei em "Sei que ela às vezes fica/se comporta assim" (I know she gets like this sometimes)

Sobre "Do you, thought?" parece-me que, aí, o autor do livro intencionalmente retratou uma falha de diálogo, i.é., um erro que a personagem desavisadamente cometeu. A meu ver e SMJ, a personagem deveria dizer "Did you think?"

Vamos aguardar outros pareceres.
O tradutor traduziu como: " será mesmo" ela disse "que você conhece a minha mãe, quer dizer"?

Aí eu fiquei em dúvida se essa estrutura: "do you" + vírgula passaria um sentido de "será" ou algo do tipo, tá certo? Por que será que a autora utilizou a vírgula? Ela quis passar um sentido diferente de: Do you though?, não é ?

Obs: me desculpe não é thought, e sim though.
Marcio_Farias 1 24 213
Acho que a personagem fez uma pausa:

"Você... Será que você a conhece?"

Vamos aguardar outras sugestões.
PPAULO 6 48 1.2k
"Well, because I know you mom", Simon said, after a pause. "I mean, you and I have been friends for what, ten years now? I know she gets like this sometimes. She'll think better of it".
Clary picked a hot pepper off her plate and nibbed the edge meditatively. "Do you, thought?" She said. "Know her, I mean? I sometimes wonder if anyone does"

My educated guess, I mean, my hunch is:
"Do you, thought?"
Do you (?) - referring to "I know she gets like this sometimes."
Thought - I assume this "thought" is short for something like "you think you thought", that is, about something that the first character thought her/him knew about "she" (indicating perhaps misgivings about the event "she´ll think better of it".)

Sometimes they don´t use plain English, one has to dig under the seemingly obscure wording! That´s it. Indeed it would be easier it were two sentences, but sometimes it´s a colloquial context, and sometimes it´s about author style.
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Então se você fosse traduzir essa pequena fala, como você o faria?
Marcio_Farias 1 24 213
PPAULO, um detalhe. Onde se lê "thought", leia-se "though".

A frase, pois, ficaria assim:

"Do you, though?"

How does it translate into Portuguese?
PPAULO 6 48 1.2k
Then. Do you, after all. (afinal de contas você conhece/sabe). In other words "se você diz!" (então eu tenho que acreditar/eu vou acreditar...)
PPAULO escreveu:Then. Do you, after all. (afinal de contas você conhece/sabe). In other words "se você diz!" (então eu tenho que acreditar/eu vou acreditar...)
Me desculpe mas eu não entendi bem ainda, quando a personagem diz "Do you", ela está se referindo ao verbo "know"(1)? Então a tradução é: "você sabe", em tom de pergunta (2)? E qual o sentido do "though" nesse caso (3)?
PPAULO 6 48 1.2k
Yes, it´s referring to the verb "know", based on the fact that the other character said she/he knew the third person and knew that "she would think better of it."

Tamas, though is used as an adverb as the less formal equivalent of however. We use though and however when we want to add a comment that seems to contradict or contrasts with what has already been said. As in your own example, Tamas, though often indicates an afterthought.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learn ... v136.shtml

To my thinking, the "though" there is as if the person meant "I have to believe in you, for lacking of other source, but I have misgivings if she will think better of it." There is, an afterthought (question-tag like).
Again, to me a complete sentence would be more like "Do you (know then)? Yet I don´t believe much. (however, I have some misgivings) in other words, it´s like the character doesn´t buy the idea much and thinks "why I don´t feel she is going to think better of it?".
It´s a bit tricky to think at this level, I must admit. It´s something upper intermediate level or beyond, but believe me, the translation/version is something in that direction.

Also, "though" has also the meaning of "posto que"
http://michaelis.uol.com.br/busca?r=1&f ... vra=though

And "after all"
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/though

But said with that ring of slightly "contradicting" what has been (just) said.
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PPAULO escreveu:Yes, it´s referring to the verb "know", based on the fact that the other character said she/he knew the third person and knew that "she would think better of it."

Tamas, though is used as an adverb as the less formal equivalent of however. We use though and however when we want to add a comment that seems to contradict or contrasts with what has already been said. As in your own example, Tamas, though often indicates an afterthought.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learn ... v136.shtml

To my thinking, the "though" there is as if the person meant "I have to believe in you, for lacking of other source, but I have misgivings if she will think better of it." There is, an afterthought (question-tag like).
Again, to me a complete sentence would be more like "Do you (know then)? Yet I don´t believe much. (however, I have some misgivings) in other words, it´s like the character doesn´t buy the idea much and thinks "why I don´t feel she is going to think better of it?".
It´s a bit tricky to think at this level, I must admit. It´s something upper intermediate level or beyond, but believe me, the translation/version is something in that direction.

Also, "though" has also the meaning of "posto que"
http://michaelis.uol.com.br/busca?r=1&f ... vra=though

And "after all"
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/though

But said with that ring of slightly "contradicting" what has been (just) said.
Eu tentei traduzir e não sei se ficou bom, então você poderia traduzir esse trecho, por favor. Eu queria ver como ficaria a tradução sob sua perspectiva:

"Do you, though?she said. "Know her, I mean? I sometimes wonder if anyone does".
PPAULO 6 48 1.2k
It could fit the meaning, yes.
PPAULO escreveu:It could fit the meaning, yes.
Seria algo como: " Você sabe, afinal de contas" ela disse. "Você a conhece, digo." Ou não?

Desse jeito fica com sentido, mas temo que tenha perdido o tom de pergunta/dúvida que está na frase original.

E desse jeito: "Você sabe"?Apesar... Ela disse. "de você conhecê-la, digo?"

Eu tô tentando manter o tom original (de dúvida/pergunta), mas será que esse é um caso em que você não vai conseguir manter o sentido geral competamente? E aí o que você acha?
PPAULO 6 48 1.2k
With more context we could narrow the answer and perhaps be more specific a little bit... So, if you have more to add to this excerpt it will be of help. Please bring more of it to the table, please. ;-)
PPAULO escreveu:With more context we could narrow the answer and perhaps be more specific a little bit... So, if you have more to add to this excerpt it will be of help. Please bring more of it to the table, please. ;-)
Eu cortei as partes que não importavam para o entendimento da situação em questão, ficou grande, mas eu realmente espero que com isso você possa ter um melhor compreensão do contexto.

Jocelyn expelled a sigh. “We’re going on vacation.”
Luke’s expression went blank, like a canvas wiped clean of paint.
Clary shook her head. “That’s what this is about? You’re going on
Vacation?” She sank back against the cushions. “I don’t get it. Why the big
Production?”
“I don’t think you understand. I meant we’re all going on vacation. The
Three of us— you, me, and Luke. We’re going to the farmhouse.”
“Oh.” Clary glanced at Luke, but he had his arms crossed over his chest
And was staring out the window, his jaw pulled tight. She wondered what
Was upsetting him. He loved the old farmhouse in upstate New York—he’d
Bought and restored it himself ten years before, and he went there
Whenever he could. “For how long?”
“For the rest of the summer,” said Jocelyn. “I brought the boxes in case
You want to pack up any books, painting supplies—”
“For the rest of the summer?” Clary sat upright with indignation. “I
Can’t do that, Mom. I have plans—simon and I were going to have a back-
To-school party, and I’ve got a bunch of meetings with my art group, and
Ten more classes at Tisch—”
“I’m sorry about Tisch. But the other things can be canceled. Simon will
Understand, and so will your art group.”
Clary heard the implacability in her mother’s tone and realized she was
Serious. “But I paid for those art classes! I saved up all year! You
Promised.” She whirled, turning to Luke. “Tell her! Tell her it isn’t fair!”
Luke didn’t look away from the window, though a muscle jumped in his
Cheek. “She’s your mother. It’s her decision to make.”
“I don’t get it.” Clary turned back to her mother. “Why?”
“I have to get away, Clary,” Jocelyn said, the corners of her mouth
Trembling. “I need the peace, the quiet, to paint. And money is tight right
Now—”
“So sell some more of Dad’s stocks,” Clary said angrily. “That’s what
You usually do, isn’t it?”
Jocelyn recoiled. “That’s hardly fair.”
“Look, go if you want to go. I don’t care. I’ll stay here without you. I can work; I can get a job at Starbucks or something. Simon said they’re always
Hiring. I’m old enough to take care of myself—”
“No!” The sharpness in Jocelyn’s voice made Clary jump. “I’ll pay you
Back for the art classes, Clary. But you are coming with us. It isn’t
Optional. You’re too young to stay here on your own. Something could
Happen.”
“Like what? What could happen?” Clary demanded.
There was a crash. She turned in surprise to find that Luke had knocked
Over one of the framed pictures leaning against the wall. Looking distinctly
Upset, he set it back. When he straightened, his mouth was set in a grim
Line. “I’m leaving.”
the doorknob.
The door flew open. Jocelyn gave a little scream.
“Jesus!” Luke exclaimed.
“Actually, it’s just me,” said Simon. “Although I’ve been told the
Resemblance is startling.” He waved at Clary from the doorway. “You
Ready?” Jocelyn took her hand away from her mouth. “Simon, were you
Eavesdropping?”
Simon blinked. “No, I just got here.” He looked from Jocelyn’s pale face
To Luke’s grim one. “Is something wrong? Should I go?”
“Don’t bother,” Luke said. “I think we’re done here.” He pushed past
Simon, thudding down the stairs at a rapid pace. Downstairs, the front
Door slammed shut.
Simon hovered in the doorway, looking uncertain. “I can come back
Later,” he said. “Really. It wouldn’t be a problem.”
“That might—” Jocelyn began, but Clary was already on her feet.
“Forget it, Simon. We’re leaving,” she said, grabbing her messenger bag
From a hook near the door. She slung it over her shoulder, glaring at her
Mother. “See you later, Mom.”
Jocelyn bit her lip. “Clary, don’t you think we should talk about this?”
“We’ll have plenty of time to talk while we’re on ‘vacation,’” Clary said
Venomously, and had the satisfaction of seeing her mother flinch. “Don’t
Wait up,” she added, and, grabbing Simon’s arm, she half-dragged him out
The front door.
He dug his heels in, looking apologetically over his shoulder at Clary’s
Mother, who stood small and forlorn in the entryway, her hands knitted
Tightly together. “Bye, Mrs. Fray!” he called. “Have a nice evening!”
“Oh, shut up, Simon,” Clary snapped, and slammed the door behind
Them, cutting off her mother’s reply.
“Jesus, woman, don’t rip my arm off,” Simon protested as Clary hauled
Him downstairs after her, her green Skechers slapping against the wooden
Stairs with every angry step. She glanced up, half-expecting to see her
Mother glaring down from the landing, but the apartment door stayed
Shut.
“Sorry,” Clary muttered, letting go of his wrist. She paused at the foot of
The stairs, her messenger bag banging against her hip.
He slid a comforting arm around her shoulders. “Come on, I’ll buy you
Some food.” “I just can’t believe she’s being like this,” Clary said for the fourth time, chasing a stray bit of guacamole around her plate with the tip
Of a nacho. They were at a neighborhood Mexican joint, a hole in the wall
Called Nacho Mama. “Like grounding me every other week wasn’t bad
Enough. Now I’m going to be exiled for the rest of the summer.”
“Well, you know, your mom gets like this sometimes,” Simon said. “Like
When she breathes in or out.” He grinned at her around his veggie burrito.
“Oh, sure, act like it’s funny,” she said. “You’re not the one getting
Dragged off to the middle of nowhere for God knows how long—”
“Clary.” Simon interrupted her tirade. “I’m not the one you’re mad at.
Besides, it isn’t going to be permanent.”
“How do you know that?”
“Well, because I know your mom,” Simon said, after a pause. “I mean,
You and I have been friends for what, ten years now? I know she gets like
This sometimes. She’ll think better of it.”
Clary picked a hot pepper off her plate and nibbled the edge
Meditatively. “Do you, though?” she said. “Know her, I mean? I sometimes
Wonder if anyone does.”
Simon blinked at her. “You lost me there.”
Clary sucked in air to cool her burning mouth. “I mean, she never talks
About herself. I don’t know anything about her early life, or her family, or
Much about how she met my dad. She doesn’t even have wedding photos.
It’s like her life started when she had
Me. That’s what she always says when I ask her about it.”
"Aw.” Simon made a face at her. "That’s sweet.”
"No, it isn’t. It’s weird. It’s weird that I don’t know anything about my
Grandparents. I mean, I know my dad’s parents weren’t very nice to her,
But could they have been that bad? What kind of people don’t want to
Even meet their granddaughter?”
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PPAULO escreveu:With more context we could narrow the answer and perhaps be more specific a little bit... So, if you have more to add to this excerpt it will be of help. Please bring more of it to the table, please. ;-)
Eu enxuguei ainda mais as cenas do livro. Espero que assim fique mais fácil de entender a frase.

Bom, a mãe dela chega de repente com a notícia que elas vão viajar para uma fazenda pelo resto do verão, aí a garota fala que se isso acontecer elá vai perder suas aulas de artes, que já estavam todas pagas e que ela tinha vários planos para o verão, então ela sai com seu melhor amigo(Simon) para espairecer e vão para um restaurante onde acontece a conversa:

"Clary." Simon interrupted her tirade. "I'm not the one you're mad me at. Besides, it isn't going to be permanent."

"How do you Know that?"

Well, because I know your mom," Simon said, after a pause. "I mean, you and I have been friends for what, ten years now? I know she gets like this sometimes. She'll think better of it."

Clary picked a hot pepper off her plate and nibbled the edge
Meditatively. “Do you, though?” she said. “Know her, I mean? I sometimes
Wonder if anyone does.”

Simon blinked at her. “You lost me there.”

Clary sucked in air to cool her burning mouth. “I mean, she never talks about herself. I don’t know anything about her early life, or her family, or much about how she met my dad. She doesn’t even have wedding photos.
It’s like her life started when she had
Me. That’s what she always says when I ask her about it.”

Com maior contexto, o que você acha que significa: "Do you, though" She said. "know her, I mean?"
PPAULO 6 48 1.2k
Okay, after some more research, I think this could be translated like this:
"Do you, though" She said. "know her, I mean?"
"Não sei...tenho minhas dúvidas!... "quero dizer, que você a conhece."
OR "você acha (né)?."..."que a conhece, digo."

Similar to what happens with "is it though?", in which someone retorts to something just said that seems debatable:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... 0though%3F
PPAULO escreveu:Okay, after some more research, I think this could be translated like this:
"Do you, though" She said. "know her, I mean?"
"Não sei...tenho minhas dúvidas!... "quero dizer, que você a conhece."
OR "você acha (né)?."..."que a conhece, digo."

Similar to what happens with "is it though?", in which someone retorts to something just said that seems debatable:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... 0though%3F
Colocando a tradução para português do jeito que está na frase original, como ficaria(1)? E o "Do you" se refere ao verbo Know mesmo(2)?
PPAULO escreveu:Okay, after some more research, I think this could be translated like this:
"Do you, though" She said. "know her, I mean?"
"Não sei...tenho minhas dúvidas!... "quero dizer, que você a conhece."
OR "você acha (né)?."..."que a conhece, digo."

Similar to what happens with "is it though?", in which someone retorts to something just said that seems debatable:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... 0though%3F
Eu não entendi, o que quer dizer o "is it though?". Eu pesquisei e não encontrei muito a respeito.
PPAULO 6 48 1.2k
Would be something that you don´t quite believe the other person is serious about, for example, that is, it´s something debatable as well.
In Portuguese something like "você acredita nisso?/você acha mesmo?" (indicating that I quite don´t think so, or that I am going to throw some reasoning that perhaps makes him/her change his/her mind.) In short, something with a ring of "eu t tenho minhas dúvidas/há controvérsias..."
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PPAULO escreveu:Okay, after some more research, I think this could be translated like this:
"Do you, though" She said. "know her, I mean?"
"Não sei...tenho minhas dúvidas!... "quero dizer, que você a conhece."
OR "você acha (né)?."..."que a conhece, digo."

Similar to what happens with "is it though?", in which someone retorts to something just said that seems debatable:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... 0though%3F
Em outra postarem você disse que o "do you" se referia ao verbo Know e na nova postagem você disse que significa: "Você acha", como você soube que era o verbo "think" e não outro verbo? Eu fiquei com dúvida, o "Do you" está se referindo a um verbo já citado antetiormente no discurso ou não? Tipo por que é estranho a negativa vir sem o verbo principal, então faria mais sentido se referir a um verbo já citado, mas aí você veio com o verbo "pensar" e me deixou com dúvida.
Marcio_Farias 1 24 213
Leandro Farias escreveu:
PPAULO escreveu:OR "você acha (né)?."..."que a conhece, digo."

Similar to what happens with "is it though?", in which someone retorts to something just said that seems debatable:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... 0though%3F
Em outra postarem você disse que o "do you" se referia ao verbo Know e na nova postagem você disse que significa: "Você acha", como você soube que era o verbo "think" e não outro verbo? Eu fiquei com dúvida, o "Do you" está se referindo a um verbo já citado antetiormente no discurso ou não? Tipo por que é estranho a negativa vir sem o verbo principal, então faria mais sentido se referir a um verbo já citado, mas aí você veio com o verbo "pensar" e me deixou com dúvida.
O caso pedia e, com muita dose de acerto, PPAULO traduziu "Do you know" para "Você acha" por intuição própria, tradução essa com que concordariam muitos outros tradutores e com a qual você, com o tempo e sem pestanejar muito, concordará também. Porque o verbo no texto inglês venha com a negativa não significa que não devamos traduzir o texto com uma conotação afirmativa.

Lembre-se que o que os falantes nativos de inglês muitas vezes dizem chorando nós dizemos rindo e vice-versa. Eles nem sempre rirão das mesmas piadas de que rimos; nem sempre acharão graça de nossos programas humorísticos, haja vista a fracassada tentativa da TV Globo de vender nos Estados Unidos alguns episódios de Chico Anísio dos quais os americanos acharam pouca ou nenhuma graça. Por falar nisso, eu chego a me perguntar por que achamos tão engraçados os programas e filmes humorísticos americanos?

De qualquer forma, tradução de uma língua para a outra envolve, também, traduzir cultura para cultura, e isso nós vamos assimilando com o tempo, com a prática, com boa vontade e disposição em entender as "coisas" pelo ponto de vista do receptor da tradução, ainda que para isso o tradutor tenha de se expor longamente à cultura-alvo no país do leitor-receptor.
PPAULO 6 48 1.2k
From your own excerpt:
Meditatively. “Do you, though?” she said. “Know her, I mean? I sometimes
Wonder if anyone does.”


As you see, it positively refers to "know" (her).

What I meant is that when one uses expressions such as "do you though." or "is it though?" is that it involves that notion that one has just said is doubtful (debatable), open to question. So, it equals to state "really? Do you think that? Do you think you know? (in this specific case we are dealing with).

So, it´s not a contradiction, it´s two different things here. Unless you are mentioning my very first guesswork; but then I was in the dark at the time. As you see Marcio´s gut feelings were right. It comes with experience.

I hope it has clarified the matter further. ;-)
PPAULO escreveu:From your own excerpt:
Meditatively. “Do you, though?” she said. “Know her, I mean? I sometimes
Wonder if anyone does.”


As you see, it positively refers to "know" (her).

What I meant is that when one uses expressions such as "do you though." or "is it though?" is that it involves that notion that one has just said is doubtful (debatable), open to question. So, it equals to state "really? Do you think that? Do you think you know? (in this specific case we are dealing with).

So, it´s not a contradiction, it´s two different things here. Unless you are mentioning my very first guesswork; but then I was in the dark at the time. As you see Marcio´s gut feelings were right. It comes with experience.

I hope it has clarified the matter further. ;-)
Eu me perdi! Então o "do you" se refere ao verbo know já falado nas falas anteriores ou ao verbo "know" que vem em seguida, quando a personagem acrescenta? Você também fala: tais expressões como: do you though, isso é uma expressao? Eu pensei que fosse apenas uma construção que a personagem fez

Obs: me desculpe pelo trabalho, tenho dificuldades para aprender as coisas, tanto quando as pessoas falam ou quando escrevem. Desculpe mesmo.
PPAULO 6 48 1.2k
It´s a valid and relevant question. In fact it refers to was said afterwards, only that the flow of the sentences "went in reverse", which is something that happens in Portuguese as well.
By chance, it also applies to the "know" that had been said before, but that doesn´t necessarily happens with all cases of "do you, though?"
And I might have not expressed myself well, it isn´t really an expression, but "a way of speaking" (a way they talk in more casual situations).
Let´s think of it as a device used when we learn about something that is debatable or open to question.
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PPAULO escreveu:It´s a valid and relevant question. In fact it refers to was said afterwards, only that the flow of the sentences "went in reverse", which is something that happens in Portuguese as well.
By chance, it also applies to the "know" that had been said before, but that doesn´t necessarily happens with all cases of "do you, though?"
And I might have not expressed myself well, it isn´t really an expression, but "a way of speaking" (a way they talk in more casual situations).
Let´s think of it as a device used when we learn about something that is debatable or open to question.
Deixa eu ver se eu entendi: a resposta da personagem "Do you, though?"she said. "Know her, I mean?" Foi um espécie de questionamento à afirmação que o outro personagem fez: "Well, because I know you mom", é isso(1)?
Então a resposta dela seria algo como: "você realmente a conhece?" ou "será que a você a conhece, digo(2)?
PPAULO 6 48 1.2k
Yes.